Two Tubes

"CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever" (carsoffortlangley) 10/15/2018 at 23:59 • Filed to: None

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Gun post. Read accordingly.

I’ve been thinking about getting a little 12 gauge. I know less about guns than I do cars, but I do have my license to purchase this.

Any knowledge you’d impart to a total newbie?

I really like over unders, this one seems kinda fun/cheap/small for emergencies or just fun range time.

CB > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:13

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I only have experience with the Remington 870, so the only advice I can give to you is remember to keep it safely stored. Check out Cabella’s, they might have someone you can talk to about it.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:17

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Do you know anyone that does a sport involving shotguns (skeet, bird hunting, etc)? I don’t own one because I can’t see the point; I do target shooting (pistol and rifle).

How do the licenses work? Is it only for a shotgun?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > CB 10/16/2018 at 00:17

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Always safety 1st! How did you like the 870?

CB > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:18

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It’s a fun gun, either shooting buckshot or slug. Pretty easy to use. The only thing that sucks about the one I used were the bead sights. Rifle sights are a lot better on them.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 10/16/2018 at 00:22

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The license is for anything that is not restricted. Ie, rifles or shotgun. Mag limit of 10.

There are other rules, but those are essentially  the important points.

wafflesnfalafel > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:22

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Consider joining a reputable  club first , you may find you would be happier with something other than a shortie overunder. And get a safe and decent ear and eye protection.

WRXforScience > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:27

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One of the similarities between guns and cars is that the specific application greatly determines the characteristics that are best.

Is this primarily a hunting gun, a target/skeet gun, or is this a tactical/self-defense weapon?  

Different ranges have different policies for what you can and can’t use, so you may want to check your local range’s policies before you make a purchase.

I personally don’t recommend “self-defense” weapons, they have a higher likelihood of harming yourself or a family member than being used against an intruder. If you still want a gun, go for it. Just know that it’s like having a guard rattlesnake, sure it might stop an intruder from stealing your shit but it might also bite you in the ass.

A personal an ecdote: when I was in college I had a last minute change of weekend plans and was able to come home for a long weekend. I called my mom in the afternoon and told her I was able to come and would get there at about 12. My mom goes to bed at about 8pm and doesn’t really consider 12am a time when people aren’t in bed, so she assumes and tells my dad that I’m coming noon on Saturday instead of midnight on Friday. The porch lights weren’t on when I got home, but I had a key and it wasn’t too big of a deal. I had my laundry with me and in the dark fumbled with the keys for a few seconds (under a minute but more than 10-15s). When I opened the door my dad met me with a shotgun. Thankfully, he called out before he raised the weapon and was relieved to see me and not an intruder. It was just before midnight and I thought I was expected. From then on, I made sure to call my dad and not my mom and my dad leaves his shotgun unloaded. He decided that if racking the shotgun isn’t enough to scare off an intruder than that’s too bad and preferable to shooting one of his kids.

I personally would rather be shot than kill ( even an intruder) , but I’m a godless atheist so your opinion may vary.

For Sweden > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:27

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Over-unders are barbaric. Get a side-by-side

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:27

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My over-under is such a great gun . It’s upstairs otherwise I would take a picture but I’m being lazy rn. How hard is it to get a gun in ‘Mericas hat

Clown Shoe Pilot > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:29

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Remington 870 is the one you want. If it was the late 80's, i t’s the VW bug of shotguns. Everyone knows how to work on them and everyone makes aftermarket parts. You can make an 870 appropriate for any shotgun discipline.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/16/2018 at 00:30

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Not as hard as you'd think, but not easy

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:31

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What do you want to do with it?

Since you’re limited to one, I’d be much more picky about what I bought. Is there anywhere you can try a variety of guns?

Fixed or detachable magazines? Is there any limitation there?

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:35

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I own a couple, mostly for turkey, waterfowl, and upland bird hunting.

You can’t g o wrong with a Remington 870 Express, they’re absolute reliable workhorses . My dad has an 870 supermag which is a great turkey gun, but I find the longer pump throw annoying.

I shoot either a Browning Citori 20ga or my Browning A5 20ga. Both of which are rather expensive for a starter gun.

My younger cousins who shoot competitively shoot Franchi Affinity’s.

I’ve been curious about some of the new CZ over/under’s, I’d like a 12ga over/under and they’re fairly cheap.

leicester > For Sweden 10/16/2018 at 00:37

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speak for yourself.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:37

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Are you going to be one of those Canadians that always shows your guns to the USians you know ? I always found that the weirdest thing. Like it was some kind of, “S ee? We can own guns, too!”, combined with a seeming belief that we’re familiar with every single gun ever made...

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 10/16/2018 at 00:38

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I don't think so

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:41

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It hasn’t happened in well over a decade for me and it was always in rural areas, but I was quite uncomfortable when it happened . I mean, I have no clue about Canadian gun laws and I was worried that even handling them might be breaking a law, on top of the general concern about anyone handing me a gun (first thing I did was make sure the safeties were on and the chambers were empty; I felt like they didn’t know how to safely handle them ).

Have never encountered anything like that in the US, except with really close friends, and even then it was a different vibe.

leicester > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:45

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if you’re looking for an economical O/U for range time, there are a number of Turkish makes that are good value vs performance.

atfsgeoff > WRXforScience 10/16/2018 at 00:47

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I personally don’t recommend “self-defense” weapons, they have a higher likelihood of harming yourself or a family member than being used against an intruder.

Only if you or someone you live with is suicidal. Accidental shooting deaths are incredibly rare, statistically.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:48

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I walked in and out of a gun store with a brand new handgun jut bigger than an iPhone so anything more than that is long haha. Of course, at that point the wife and I both had Concealed Carry Permits.  

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > leicester 10/16/2018 at 00:51

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I don’t think it’s possible to make a “barbaric” break action g un without questionable modifications. Like stance.

CB > WRXforScience 10/16/2018 at 00:54

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Speaking as a Canadian, self-defense weapons kind of break our weapons storage laws and can lead to jail time, as well as the fact that you can be criminally charged for using one in self-defence . Plus increased risk of using it for suicide, accidental deaths (did you know that the safety on some shotguns only stops the trigger from moving and they can still go off if dropped?), and someone just straight up stealing it when they break in. So yeah, don’t do that!

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 00:58

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Can’t go wrong with an AR-15. Lightweight, very little recoil, easy to aim, highly accurate, parts availability forever, all the aftermarket support, ammo is relatively cheap.

More versatile than a shotgun IMO. .223/5.56 rounds have less tendency to overpenetrate through multiple walls than 00 buck or 12 gauge slugs too, if you need to use it in a defensive situation (I’m not up to date on Canadian self defense laws).

Aaron James > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 01:12

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Everyone seems to go to the Remington 870, you can’t go wrong there. I also like the Mossberg 500. Both Pump action.

Sovande > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 06:59

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What kind of emergency will a well secured, responsibly locked up gun solve? Rabid goose?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > For Sweden 10/16/2018 at 07:22

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Wow that is sexy.

Makes my side by side look like crap:

Spanfeller is a twat > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 07:24

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In my honest opinion, a self defense defense weapon is a big mess for a small gain .... but if you want a gun for the heck of it I know my grandfather enjoyed his rifles more than his shotguns, and he had them for sport shooting. Maybe that helps you find a weapon for the range/outdoors as Canadian law allows for. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 07:24

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Find a place to do some Skeet, Sporting Clays, and Trap shooting.

TheRealBicycleBuck > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 07:28

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Different shotguns for different purposes. I own a couple of shotguns, one a Remington 870 Wingmaster , the other a Mossberg 500 . Both are ubiquitous and are like what Clown Shoe said - the VW bugs of the shotgun world.

My 870 was my grandfather’s   hunting gun, made sometime in the ‘60s. I have two barrels for it, one with no choke, the other choked down to keep the pattern small at long distances. The first barrel is fine for shooting birds at close range and buckshot for deer. The second is made for hunting geese, so it’s heavily choked to keep the pattern small at long distances.

There are so many parts out there that you can customize an 870 for just about any purpose, from home defense to bird hunting. A home defense gun will have a short barrel and short stock, making it light and maneuverable. These make it easy to handle in a small space, but will also make it kick harder and are useless for hunting or skeet shooting. Remington does sell a combo package with barrels for home defense and hunting. Just keep in mind that the stock isn’t ideal if you want to go full tactical in your house.

Start by figuring out what the primary use will be. If it’s home defense, buy something shorter and lighter and perhaps at a smaller gau ge. If it’s target/skeet shooting, you need a longer barrel and something a bit heavier to help reduce the kick. If it’s hunting, pick the right barrel for the prey - long for geese, shorter for quail or dove, rifled for deer slugs.

There are some things to keep in mind. Wood “furniture” (the stock and grip) are beautiful, but require more care than resin. If your goal is low maintenance, buy something that has resin furniture and is either coated or made from stainless to help keep rust at bay. If you want to hunt waterfowl, resin and stainless is a good combo, but you may want to look at something already camouflaged .

My Mossberg is the complete opposite of my Remington. It was designed for home defense or tactical uses with an 18.5" barrel and an adjustable stock. It’s also matte black to look tacticool.

This is a gun I never would have bought for myself. I inherited it from my mom! She was living alone in the country when someone tried to break into her house. She had my 870 on hand, so she was ready for them, but that night she realized that the 870 was just too big for her to handle. Fortunately, the sheriff arrived before they got through the door. I’m glad criminal are usually dumb and they didn’t think to break one of the windows right next to the front door. Anyway, she bought the Mossberg so she’d have something more appropriate for her situation. Thankfully, she never had to use it.

The biggest downside to the Mossberg is how hard it kicks. It’s really light, so there isn’t much weight to help absorb the momentum imparted from a .12 gauge shell. Five people have shot this gun, but I doubt it’s had more than a single box of shells through it. Two or three shots is more than enough to recognize it just kicks too hard to be much fun. It’s certainly not an all-day at the range kind of gun.

The biggest advantage to buying an 870 or 500 is the aftermarket support. E ither of these can be customized to your heart’s content. With the right parts, I can take my grandfather’s gun and turn it into something he wouldn’t even recognize.

Yes, that’s an 870.

So, while a fancy over/under with beautiful engraving may be something you want to admire, it probably won’t meet your needs as a working shotgun. If I had one, I’d be hard-pressed to take it hunting because I’d be worried about damaging the engraving. But they sure are pretty!

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Sovande 10/16/2018 at 07:58

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CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > atfsgeoff 10/16/2018 at 08:13

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Our laws are you may not shoot anyone. Ever.

Sovande > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 08:13

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Well there you have it then. A wise choice! I’d get a Winchester 1200 marine because stainless looks cool.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 10/16/2018 at 08:18

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That would be so insanely illegal here

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

WRXforScience > atfsgeoff 10/16/2018 at 08:27

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Well, suicides are near the top of cause of death for most age brackets and home invasions are also very rare, statistically. The last set of numbers I saw said that there was nearly a 41:1 ratio of injury for owners and family members compared to intruders (of course that included intentional self-harm, but there is a correlation between successful suicide attempts and gun ownership).

If you feel the need for a gun, I don’t want to stop you (and a shotgun is less likely to harm your neighbors if you miss or with over-penetration, so I would think they would be a better option than say a rifle). I just don’t think that the numbers support guns as an effective means of self-defense in most cases.

Tripper > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 09:09

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I’ve got a Remington 1100 that is my absolute favorite gun. Partially because my dad bought it for me when I was just old enough to handle a 12 gauge, and partially because it destroys clay birds! We don’t shoot anything alive. It’s a semi auto (3 round magazine) so you can shoot all day without your shoulder paying the price.

vicali > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 11:15

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I carried a defender working in the bush for a number of years, it was heavy, I hated it, the back holster was a pain, it got caught on everything, and always freaked out the Heli pilots.. But when you needed it it was nice to have.

Had a 16g Win 1987 take down as a camp gun for awhile, it was decent.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > vicali 10/16/2018 at 11:21

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I’m thinking the overunder shorty for a kind of hiking/back country gun.

I like the idea of being able to select a barrel and the utility/durability of a shotgun.

I could, theoretically, have a 12G bear banger in the lower with a 12G 00 in the top. Or flares or whatever.

It seems like an ideal utility tool rather than a weapon

vicali > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 11:25

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S kip the bangers - they are fun to play with but not all that useful I’ve found..

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 10/16/2018 at 11:29

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out of curiosity. What would be the gun equivalent of stance?

vicali > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 11:32

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I used to alternate slugs and buckshot in the magazine. It was a great bear gun, and way less hassle than the guys carrying pistols.

atfsgeoff > WRXforScience 10/16/2018 at 12:32

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(of course that included intentional self-harm, but there is a correlation between successful suicide attempts and gun ownership)

Yes, firearms are the most effective tool for suicide. I don’t hold that against them. The right to life includes the right to end it, selfish as that may be.

(and a shotgun is less likely to harm your neighbors if you miss or with over-penetration, so I would think they would be a better option than say a rifle)

Common myth. 5.56mm out of an AR-15 actually overpenetrates less than 00 buck or slugs out of a shotgun, or 9mm/.40/.45 out of a handgun . The 5.56 bullets travel much faster but have far less mass, and are slowed down/stop much quicker after hitting any surface because of yawing .

atfsgeoff > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 12:40

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Our laws are you may not shoot anyone. Ever.

I don’t see anything about “no shooting anyone ever” here . Furthermore:

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/03/canadian-self-defense-law-three-things-you-absolutely-must-know/#axzz5U73enK5g

Number One: Defending yourself, contrary to popular belief, is NOT against Canadian law. The Criminal Code of Canada very specifically allows self-defense and defense of property in Sections 34 and 35.

Number Two: Should you find yourself in the unfortunate position where you must defend yourself with deadly force, you will be arrested and charged with a crime. Crown prosecutors seemingly don’t like Canadians doing what is required to stay alive so you absolutely will go to trial on whatever charges are laid against you.

Number Three: Unless you’ve done something terribly wrong, the odds of you being convicted are on your side. The CSSA has dealt with many of these types of cases over the years, and in only one case was the individual convicted.

It actually seems reasonable enough.

atfsgeoff > CB 10/16/2018 at 12:45

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(did you know that the safety on some shotguns only stops the trigger from moving and they can still go off if dropped?)

Many shotguns and rifles have floating firing pins, which makes them not drop-safe if you have a round chambered.

thejustache > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 13:05

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tacti-cool?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > thejustache 10/16/2018 at 13:18

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That would be my guess.  Fat dads with guns that look like they’re from COD.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 14:04

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Questionable backyard modifications. Cutting down the stock, cutting down the barrel, removing the trigger guard, and other such madness.

The last stock SC 5speed > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/16/2018 at 14:08

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A desert eagle, gold plated.

leicester > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/17/2018 at 12:22

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Over-accessorized picatinny rails.